Marine Bill

[barbelblanker]

I think the difference comes in the consideration of the impact species have.

Signal crayfish are wiping out the native crayfish as they are an invasive and destructive import. Zander (I am totally open to correction here) as far as I know have stabilised and not become a mono-culture inhabitant of the waters they are in . Though this might explain why there are no barbel left in the Severn...no that's just my flimsy excuse.

Australia, rightly, is very careful to the point of paranoia about new bio hazards having learnt (eventually) that non indigineous life forms can go wild and have a massive impact.

IF zander and catfish ever got to this stage then we would need to take measures to control them.

There are very few "native" fish or even wildlife on these isles. In some cases the introduction of species , even those native to parts of the UK , has been for sport and at the hand of man. Though it may be a myth, were foxes native the Isle of Wight , or were they introduced from the mainland ?

Grey squirrels are a destructive pest, little more than a tree rat, where are the EEC on this ?

As has to rightly been pointed out can anyone see the Spanish wiping out a major source of income ? So why does our government insist on following these daft direcectives rather than tell them "enough!". Tourism and angling for a significant part of the economy with angling being one of the sports to thrive, during the recession (though sea fishing is suffering, again where are the EEC for that?).

If we do end up with a dodgy import in our lakes and rivers it is far more likely to come out of an ornamental pond, garden or fish tank , than be stocked by an irresponsible fishery owner with everything to lose.

If I read the discussion right it is to do with why we wipe one out and not the other. Predation is a healthy thing for our fish stocks as it weeds out the sick and slow. When it causes a crash in populations then we need to think about taking measures.

Can we regard otters and cormorants in this class ?

Here's a thought that might (and should) raise a hackle or two then. What came first, the barbel or the otter? If otters cause mass distruction to our fisheries do we call for their removal and place them back behind bars ? If the do-gooders who want to release native mammal species back in to "the wild" (which no longer exists in a form most native mammals evolved in) will we see wolves, bears , wild boar etc. How far back do we go in an island to decided what is native ? Is it speciesist to even discuss this ?

The country around us has evolved and been heavily influenced by the hand of man. It is not a wild place with towns and cities dotted in it. It is a very man affected landscape. Do we introduce new species that enhance it or do we dream of the good old days when the Celts danced naked in the woods in a drunken embrace with their woman. Or do we go back further than last July in Parkhurst forest with the wife? Oh bu@@er slipped up there .

We do not live in the isolation of New Zealand or Australia. Wind born seeds and flying insects can do what the Nazis could not during WW2 and cross the channel to succesfully invade these shores. So is this the future? Wait to see what arrives and let the EEC decide if we keep it or make our own minds up.

Will we even get a chance to make a decision ?

Right that's the serious post over for 2010.

Going chub fishing on the severn saturday, if there are any left amongst them zander?

[JustMark]

I was witness, (and photographer) to a disastrous experiment by an organisation that was opposed to blood sports 15 years ago. I cannot name them or post pics because this is still the forage of parasitic solicitors dividing the spoils)

Suffice to say, a huge area of Scotland was fenced by the anti hunts for the purpose of saving the deer population from hunting. Within six months deer were starving to death on one side of a fence because nothing was growing. It was harrowing to see them chewing at the few green shoots of vegetation poking through the fences.

Barbelblanker, I agree with you, we are an island. Most of which has been managed for centuries. To return it to a truly wild state now would be madness and bring our nation to it's knees.

Hmm, given that all this crap is coming from Brussels, that might be the plan?

[barbelblanker]

You only have to look at the environmental disaster that was mink "freeing" to know just how crazy some deluded people are. Sure fur farms were to blame for some but to deliberately release these vicious little beggars in to the wild shows a complete lack of understanding of our countrside.

Personally I am not a supporter of fox/deer hunting and have (had) mixed feelings about it. What I do know is that many people involved with it seemed to have a more realistic grasp of nature cruel by tooth and claw than the "bambi obsessed, why don't we liberate all the pets" , brigade. Of course a few were just as deluded as the bambi brigade , don't all groups have their nutters ?

Always thought it ironic that those that claim ALL creatures are "as entitled to rights" as humans also drove to the lake to give me grief having splattered their windscreen with hundreds of flying "brethren of the planet". Or don't insects count ? Nutters!

I'm totally in favour of preserving animal life and treating them with respect. I feel strongly about the environment (though I think it IS there for mans benefit too), that's one reason why I am an angler and why you will find me next to the rivers and lakes at some unholy hour, hopefully never to see the devastating pollution but ready to raise the alarm if ever I do. While the bambi huggers are tucked up in bed oblivious to the damage.

All this and I am sober too :) Time for bed.

[headless]

How can a European directive to remove the Zander, Catfish etc... From our waterways work? It is impossible to remove them all, If we reduce the Zander stocks by angling it will only reduce the numbers by a fraction, removing the Zander could lead to a population explosion of smaller Zander as more bait fish will be available When Zander were first introduced the small fish population suffered for several years, the numbers of Zander caught were huge compared to now The Zander population has settled down now and there is a balance between baitfish and predators, Why do we do everything to the letter here, France and Spain do what suits them I certainly won’t be killing any Zander Darrell

[fullcreel]

It does seem quite mad in my humble opinion. Its as if the descisions are being made for the sake of making a decision. I also wonder if Angling bodies were ever consulted, I may be a bit off the mark when I write this, but many of us are 'unqualified', but very experiencd natralist. We have had (in my caes) 3 decades of sitting quitely on a bank observing the wildlfie,and the changes it has undegone over the years.
If these ruling should be made they should be made by loacls people to the specific area, using credible committees, which would hopefully leech out the extremists, and there would be a few in the angling camp as a well. Sorry to say, but I've encountered a few.
In regard to soe of the anti brigade, I have mentioned this before,but when I was astudent, I knew an anti who after being filled with gin one night revealed that her source for many of her feelings was down to rejection by on of the smart hunt crowd, (she was not nice to look at).

[JustMark]

There is a saying in Europe.

The Germans Make the Rules
The British Gold Plate them
The French Ignore them
The Spanish and Italians don't even read them

[headless]

Thats spot on

[flydog]

bravo justmark, I agree with eveything you say, took a lot of thought to put that together, well done.