is this all they can do is signs

[Portland Pirate]

Having lived in Spain now for close on two years I was at first astounded by the fact that both the Spanish and the Eastern Europeans take Carp home to eat. Some of the drainage ditches that they get the carp are polluted to say the least. The Eastern Europeans take far more than the Spaniards as they sell them to the Chinese restaurants, where the Brits unknowingly eat them.
I have no problem with them taking some Carp, Barbel or any other freshwater fish home for the table. Especially from the large lakes on the Costa Blanca.
The amount that they take is a sustainable level.The lakes over here are huge compared to the Carp ponds and small lakes, especially in southern and central England.
They need to be educated that levels in Small lakes and ponds are not sustainable as they are in larger Lakes. I also believe that they need to be introduced to Sea Fishing as an alternative. In the UK we have our whole country surrounded by sea and tasty fish. In Eastern Europe, some of the countries don't even have a coastline.

What a lot of people also forget is these people come from very poor areas and poverty is the normal, so a tasty fish could mean the difference between life or death. Not like the so called poverty stricken people in the UK that can hardly pay for their cable or satellite TV.

[barbelblanker]

Plot summary for the short of time.

Get on, spread word, educate, all anglers, waffley bit in the middle, yep not all will listen, word of mouth , wandering_anglers approach good. Can still use mines.

Waffley version for those with nothing better to read :)



I wouldn't say that there isn't a problem with fish taking because there obviously is. I think we need to be careful this forum doe not alienate a portion of the people living on these islands.

Fish have been stolen for many many years. Big carp find themselves moving from one venue to the other on a very regular basis. This is nothing new.
We have seen whole venues destroyed by the transfer of disease by anglers "spicing" up the fishing in their lakes.

A major part of the problem is a lack of education. WE have to remember that the UK is one of the FEW countries in the world where fish are not taken routinely for the table and this is part of the issue here.

A carp is a source of protein to people used to treating them that way and we cannot just stomp our feet and say that's not fair. Of course it isn't , the people doing this are not playing by the rules. Some do know what they are doing is wrong, some are acting totally irresponsibly and are stealing from lakes. I wouldn't mind betting that the rest are completely unaware that this is even frowned on here.

To brand all eastern europeans as fish stealing scroungers is really a step too far. There are areas of the country where there is an imbalance of incomers, East Englia , Lincolnshire and many rural areas ARE overstretched at the moment. I totally understand why people in these areas are fed up and frustrated. Maybe there is an argument for stronger intervention in "hotspots".

I served as a club committee member and bailiff for a couple of years . I can assure you that there are ALWAYS those that think the rules do not apply to them. Look at the rubbish on some venues. People cr@@ping in the bushs and leaving sweetcorn cans everywhere. This is not all down to eastern europeans and no one has even suggested that. The reason I say it is that we had problems in our sport before this issue.

Please don't let the forum descend in to yet another sounding board for stereotypical media driven ranting. We are ALL anglers after all. In ANY like minded community there are those who have yet to learn, those that have learned and those that will not.

WE all can make a difference by reaching out to these people. OK it's a fact that in many cases this may not result in the response you want, but I do think it will in enough cases that word will get around. If WE try to meet people halfway then , what the heck, they might just travel the other half.

Any organisation or group of people is better self regulated than having no regulation. There are only so many police (IF their masters actually allow them to respond to these calls, if it aint a goal it aint a crime etc.) and bailiffs around. That leaves US and THEM. If we make it US and US then we stand a much better chance. Once we get SOME of these incomers on our side then THEY will , hopefully, work on the rest.

There is no quick and easy fix to this.

The Roman and British empire were not won entirely with the sword. The first option was working together, OK to the empires rules, but working together. Next they found the centres of influence and looked to see if they could pursuade their fellows to "come around". Only if all attempts had failed did the Romans or the British reach for the gun or the sword. Wherever they went the British did not always use force as a first resort. Let's be honest it's a lot cheaper to pursude people not to take fish than put twenty foot chain fences round every pond.

We have to accept that these people are NOT about to leave, they are here to stay (I hope so because in many cases it's them and their kids who'll be paying my pension). They WILL keep some of their own traditions, as have all immigrants. If they are paid so badly is it any wonder they'll take free food when they can? I doubt there's not much I wouldn't do if my kids were hungry.

It is not easy to see hundreds of people lined up on a pier massacaring undersize bass and mackerel and you're likely to get in a whole world of trouble if you confront people doing this. It is frustrating beyond belief to hear that a twenty pound common is on a BBQ in a field in Boston. If we weren't anglers we wouldn't care. I am not nieve enough to think that there isn't a problem, there is .

We also have a problem with water abstraction, flood defences, over streched sewage works, platic bags in the sea, commerical over fishing and the possible threat yet from a future government attemtping to ban our sport.

We will be a lot stronger if we can assimilate rather than alienate these people. If we can get to a few and those few are around their mates and can influence them, we may be able to get the many around quicker. This is where people like Wandering_angler are so right and are to be encouraged and applauded. This will be the most effective approach in the medium and long term.

Just for once my lengthy rant has been written pre pub and sober (for a change).

And , anyway, if they still don't listen, we can always lay them mines :)

[Wandering_Angler]

Originally Posted by Portland Pirate

What a lot of people also forget is these people come from very poor areas and poverty is the normal, so a tasty fish could mean the difference between life or death. Not like the so called poverty stricken people in the UK that can hardly pay for their cable or satellite TV.

Portland, it is a misconception that Eastern Europe is a poor area. It is true that some countries classified as being Eastern Europe are struggling but these are not countries currently in the EU so their people do not really come into the 'immigrants stealing fish' argument.

Having lived in Lithuania for 5 years I can tell you that while there are poor people (just as there are in the UK) this is a country with a sparkling modern infrastructure, one of the fastest growing economies in Europe and people enjoying a good life style.

Basically you have two types of people taking fish in the UK, you have those who do so because they don’t realise they are doing wrong, these people are doing so because it is an inbred cultural habit shared actually by many more countries than those who practise catch and release. These people can have their habits changed partly through education with reference to the laws, rules and etiquette of the country and partly through introducing new ideas at origin and at grass roots. Projects such as our planned 'angling days for children' next summer in Lithuania and the promotion of elements of the sport that promote catch and release such as specimen hunting and match fishing can help a lot.

The second sort of person taking fish are criminals, they do it knowing they are breaking the law (in private waters) or at the very least acting in an in proper manner (on open waters) but they do it anyway. These people need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, criminals are criminals regardless of where you are. Of course those taking fish from open waters are not at the moment breaking the law which is why we have a petition designed at lobbying the government to make it illegal to remove course fish from any waters.