Missing Bites

[peakoverload]

One of my club waters is proving to be a real challenge to me. The lake itself is packed with Carp (average size 6-8lb) and Tench (average size 2-4lb) as well as a fair few silver fish (mostly very small although the odd Bream to 2lb).

I tend to fish the same method each time and that is to cast a 4BB Insert Waggler out around 15ft where the lake is around 7ft deep. I fish on the bottom laying on around 3" with a tell tale no.6 shot 3" from the hook. As for bait, it's hair rigged luncheon meat.

Now I get plenty of bites ranging from little twitches where the float bobs down or is even pulled under for a nano second which are clearly from fish quickly sucking in the bait and spitting it back out to full on bites where the float just shoots under and stays there.

The trouble I have is hitting them. Last Saturday I went back to the lake and was constanly getting bites the whole time. If I struck at the first sign of the bite I just struck into thin air and the bait was gone, if I let the bite develop and wait for this fish to 'run' with it a bit I again struck into thin air and the bait was gone. In the end I caught just one Tench and that was one that hadn't made the float move a millimeter. In fact I was actually phoning my wife to say can she come and pick me up because the weather was so bad and was on the phone to her for about 5 minutes, I then thought that I'd best reel in and rebait, picked up the rod and there was a fish on the end lipped hooked as well.

So what was/am I doing wrong?

The only thing I can think of is that I'm fishing too much over depth. I always plumet the depth and it always comes up at the same (I always mark the depth on my rod) but maybe I'm plummeting it wrong (if that's possible???). Due to the distance that I'm fishing and the depth the plumet always hits the water at an angle and even though I always leave the bail arm open to make sure that the float can move to directly above the plumet instead of being slightly in front and therefore at an angle but is there something else I should be doing?

How would you fish this lake?

[Catfish Virgin (Still!)]

Could be several things or even a combination. But one of the keys to ending this sort of frustration is to experiment a bit. The good news is the fish are there and you're getting bites!

I would start by changing little things, you're presumably comfortable and confident with the float method so just tinker with it a bit!

Maybe try a heavier waggler, perhaps a straight waggler without the insert. Play around with the shot, particularly the tell tale shot. 3ins sounds a bit close to me, I usually prefer about 6ins but will often play about with the distances.

Maybe the hair is too long (they're picking up the bait but getting nowhere near the hook?). Try shortening it or even direct hooking of the meat. Try irregular shapes of meat, or cubes, bigger, smaller etc etc. I have great confidence in punched meat rather than other shapes. I also like to just tear off pieces of meat, when using big lumps, all very "tatty" rather than "pristine" cubes. I would expect very definate bites with meat (perhaps after a few plucks and nudges).

Ring the changes and see what happens. Good luck.

[peakoverload]

Cheers for that. Thinking about it I think that the tell tale shot might be a little too close and could be spooking them a bit. The length of the hair is interesting as if I use 10mm cubes 1 cube hangs a little low, two cubes means that the shank of the hook is slightly burried. I've tried using both with mixed results, sometimes a single cube is preferred and a double ignored, other times a double produces much stronger bites usually resulting in me hooking the fish othertimes I'll get as many bites as a single cube but still can't hook them.

Do you think that ledgering would be a better way of hooking them?

Other than the occassional pole angler I'm always the only angler float fishing. Everyone else just does the same thing of using a method feeder or boilies and casting half way across the lake with a 2oz bomb. Maybe I'm missing something but if I can and do get the fish to feed just a few feet in front of me then where I have more control over accurate casting, bait presentation and more accurate feeding why would I cast a great big bomb half way across the lake?

I've thought about using a light ledger or open ended feeder in close but fear that the 'constant' splashing of it hitting the water would just scare the fish off, especially if they are as twitchy as their bites seem to be appear. But then there again maybe the more constant drip of fresh feed into the swim would keep them happy, I'm just not sure if it would improve things in terms of bite detection.

[BoldBear]

I sometimes fish a similar water although the Tench generally average a little bit larger (Average 3lb to 6lb plus). I think you are right to fish closer if you are still getting tench bites because as you said you can control the float and feed much better and you don't need to worry about feeders or large weights spooking the tench so much.
When I start getting the sort of bites that don't result in positive takes; I try increasing the length of line lying on the bottom up to about 8" (or more) and have a tell-tale shot about 2 to 3 inches 'Off' the bottom. Hopefully this will let the tench play with and suck the bait in and out without spooking them so much before moving off.
If this doesn't work I try using the lift method where I wind down onto a slightly overdepth float until it cocks with a short 2-3" hooklength and a BB on the bottom so the float lifts and lies flat as soon as the Tench sucks the bait up into its mouth (or slides away). The lake that I fish has quite a lot of leaves, debris, silt and weed on the bottom so if I leger for them I use a balanced leger which has a thin bouyant stem attatched to the ½oz or ¾oz weight which keeps the swivel off the bottom and away from the debris.
Or you could try swingtipping for them with a small ½oz or ¾oz lead.
You could also try hooking the meat direct with a small piece of grass in the bend of the hook to hold it but make sure that the hook point is showing.
Anyway let us know how you get on as it's interesting to see how others overcome these things as well.

[Catfish Virgin (Still!)]

Originally Posted by peakoverload

Everyone else just does the same thing............why would I cast a great big bomb half way across the lake?

...light ledger or open ended feeder in close but fear that the 'constant' splashing of it hitting the water would just scare the fish off

On any reasonably heavily fished water, it often pays dividends to "do something a bit different", don't follow the crowd and you'll be amazed at how succesfull that can be.

So many anglers just turn up and cast to the horizon (especialy when their target is carp) when often the best fish holding features are within the first few metres of the bank, i.e., often 1, 2 or more definite shelves. Carp in particular love to patrol and will follow shelves, bars, depressions on a regular basis. Having said that, some of those anglers make such a commotion setting up their gear, thumping around on the bank and hammering in their bivvie pegs, no self respecting fish would be within 10 miles of them!

On some waters, particularly well stocked "commercials" the splash of a feeder or lead is often the equivalent of the dinner bell! Fish will come to the sound, thats why methods like the "splasher/baggin waggler" work so well.

As for fishing close in with a feeder, try it, many top matchmen often fish a feeder in the same area they fished the pole. It's worked for me several times, having got finnicky bites on the pole but then had rod wrenching stuff on the feeder!

[Hopalong]

if you are having trouble plumbing the depth, try using a large split shot by the hook instead of a plummeit's much easier to cast

[stalker]

Freshwater Fishing - knowing your depth

Fishing Forum Admin Richard did a really good post on pluming depths on the above link. Have a look and see if there is anything for you.

Good luck

[Portland Pirate]

Have you tried fishing the margins.
I have had my best Tench by gently placing a 2oz weight and a piece or ripped luncheon meat just to the left of my swim. Then put it on bait runner. I have to admit I am too lazy to float fish most of the time.

[NICK R]

Have a play with hook size , lead /split shot position ,hook link b/s use a lighter float

[peakoverload]

Well I struck out again

First trip of the new season and I went back to the lake in question. I decided this time to increase the distance from my tell tale shot and the hook to 6 inches. As usual I was getting instant bites and as usual I failed to connect.

After a couple of hours of striking into thin air I decided to ditch the float althogether and converted the rod to a Quiver Tip (You gotta love the John Wilson Avon Quiver), chucked on a light open end feeder and gently plopped it out in the same area I'd been feeding all day. Nothing, not even a nibble.

After a fruitless hour I decided to go back to the float but this time fishing with a peacock waggler attached to the line with silicone tubing i.e. no split shot either side and just had one swan shot 6" from the hook. Bites by this time had really dried up but even the few bites I was getting resulted in me just striking into thin air again

I'm not going to give up on this but flipping heck it's frustrating!

Next time I go I'm going to try different hooklengths and am going to invest in some of the thinest yet strongest hooklength line I can find in the hope that the fish I feeling my existing hooklengths and just spitting the bait out again.

I guess I could try changing the hook size but I'm only using a size 14 and wouldn't feel that comfortable going much smaller as the Carp in there do put up a fight and as I only ever use barbless hooks a small hook could easily be disloged.