Rules for species hunt 2006

[Portland Pirate]

Hi Guys and Girls.

I think that it is about time we started to look at the rules for next years species hunt. That is of course if there is going to be one for next year.
I know it is only a bit of fun but it might be a bit fairer if we had some rules.

If we could establish a reasonable set of rules and still make it fun then I would be willing to offer a prize for next years winner. Nothing too expensive, but something to try for.

So how about hearing some ideas?

I can start off with saying I would like to have a bit more clarification on claiming sub species such as bronze, red, yellow, pink and green Goldfish. To me a Goldfish is a Goldfish. The same goes for Carp. I know that there is a number of sub species that truely are just that, but there are also local definitions and sub species that are in fact not realy sub species such as linear Carp. Should these count?

The other issue is fish ID. I have been looking at the pictures of fish that are claimed to be one thing and are in fact not that species. This once again normaly comes down to sub species identification or just plain mistaken ID. I for one am guilty of this on the freshwater side, where I have been told that a fish is one thing, that when properly identified actualy turns out to be something else.
I would put myself forward as an expert on Saltwater fish ID and would happily act as an adjudictor in the case of a dispute. I am sure that there are those amongst you that could do the same for freshwater.

As this is very much an international website should we limit the species claimed to those within the home borders of the members of the forum, or should we allow fish that have been caught on holiday or on specialist foreign angling trips to count. As I travel all over the world I personaly think that this would give someone like me an unfair advantage.
As most of the subscribers to this forum are based in the UK should it be fish caught in UK water only? (this is not a slur my fellow fisherman around the world).

Should we just leave it as it is and not change any of the rules and just have fun?

Sorry if this is going to cause you a headache Richard.

Sean.

[Vagabond]

I agree that "world-travellers" would have an advantage as the present "rules" (what rules?) stand - but it need not be "unfair"

May I suggest we run BOTH a UK-only hunt, and a Worldwide hunt ? Or put another way, run one species hunt, with a Worldwide "trophy" and a UK "trophy"

We have several members from overseas, and many of us go fishing abroad. It would be a great pity if such members and their fish were excluded.

Portland Pirate has offered a prize - if we decide to offer both competitions I am prepared to put up a second prize for the "Worldwide" hunt.

There would be the problems of identification for overseas fish. As long as anyone takes some decent pictures, I can probably identify over 90% of sea fish for most places, and freshwater fish from Europe, North America and Australia.
I would gladly volunteer to do this.

That's not because I'm particularly clever, but because I have a huge library of definitive works on fish, and a lifetimes interest in ichthyology.

We certainly need to decide what "varieties" we are going to allow for the UK freshwater section. I use that term, as once you start arguing about what are or are not "subspecies" you open a big taxonomic can of worms, and we are supposed to be doing this for fun.

I think we should allow some varieties, if only to equalise the number of targets available to freshwater and sea anglers.
Most of the following occur in commercial fisheries so lets consider allowing:-
Common, mirror, ghost and koi carp - but no others - four varieties is enough IMHO .
Grass carp is a seperate species anyway.
Tench and golden tench
Orfe and golden orfe
Goldfish (ie red or multicoloured ones), brown goldfish and fantail goldfish - again there are others, but three is enough.
Rudd, golden rudd, and lemon-finned rudd.
Rainbow trout and blue trout
Brown trout - there are many varieties - ie Loch Leven, Ferox, Gillaroo, Sonaghan, Doleran, Seatrout - how many should we allow?
Only ONE sort of crucian carp - there are a lot of dodgy mongrels out there.
Anyone got any more varieties to consider?

Or should we forget varieties and just have species only ?
It would be simpler, and we could use "Collins Pocket Guide to Fish of GB and Europe" as the definitive list (its pretty accurate)

NOT, please not, "skimmer bream"

Hybrids - probably best to exclude them, although there are only three commonly caught ones (roach x bream, crucian x goldfish and crucian x common carp)

Just to put in a "test case" I caught an azurine yesterday. That's also known as "lemon-finned rudd" which is a NATURAL variety of rudd (unlike, say, koi carp, which is a variety of carp obtained by selective breeding)

We also need to define "UK" - does that include Channel, Scilly, Isle of Man, Shetland, Fair Isle and the other Scottish isles ?

What about Ireland - Northern Ireland only? Its in the UK, but that's messy - why not make "UK" into "British Isles" to include Eire and all the little islands also?

I would also suggest just one point per fish, but a photograph should be necessary for it to count. Simplifies scoring, builds up a photo-gallery of unusual fish, and if its a digital photo confirms it was caught in 2006 (how many realise the time and date of a shot is encrypted into the post of a picture? - so, no submitting a picture of the burbot you caught in 1958 )

Certhia and I are off to Australia tomorrow , so may not be able to contribute to the debate unless we can get to a cyber cafe (not many of those in the tropical north - but there ARE all sorts of exciting fish - a species-hunter's dream )

Will be back late November, good fishing until then.

[gullyworm]

Could we have a section for wild fish(sea)
And a section for tame fish with names like Mary(freshwater)
Thanks

[Vagabond]

But the most recent bass I caught was called Freda

[MRG2000]

Hmmmmm, guys sounds like major rules and prizes is turning a bit of " fun " in to a serious specimen hunt.The idea itself is great ,good to have defined boundries in any competition, but surely that in itself tends to lead to people "throwing their teddy" around over small matters (like sub species or how many species) and loads of squabbling. Not sugesting that you already are ,but the points you`ve raised are obvious points of contention,which can be argued over in a serious species hunt with rules.

Surely must be better to keep it informal and a light hearted gauge of what everyones catching ,wether it be in the UK or around the world.Personally its just good to see what ,where ,how and when people have caught.And no need to strain anyone`s brain deciding if anything is allowed ,disalowed or just plain not acceptable.

[Ben]

nice1 john
i think disputes would stop if there was a list to tick off against, if your fish aint there it dont count
problem solved

[pingu]

must say would go with ben
definitave list and go on that

[Island991]

Im new here (well in the last few months anyway. Im not up on how this species hunt works for 2005, but i intend on being part in 2006. Im for the idea of a set list we can all see. If it aint on it dont count.

As for regions im from Channel Islands so would like them to be included in UK. I like the idea of a world and UK separate hunt, but a clear list of UK countries and then a 'rest of the world' would be needed.

Do all sea species count? including so called Mini Species? Gobies etc?

[Portland Pirate]

I like Vagabonds ideas and using "Collins Pocket Guide to Fish of GB and Europe" as the definitive list (its pretty accurate) is a great idea. It is the book that I use as a rule.

I have to agree with a picture for the fish to count.

[Vagabond]

Originally Posted by Charter Skipper

.Personally its just good to see what ,where ,how and when people have caught.

Yep, I go along with that - and with lots of people catching lots of species, we might just learn something about a particular species and its distribution that we didn't know before.

and to respond to Island991 I would like to see all species that can take a bait to count - it encourages people to look more closely at the habitats of the mini species, and again, by doing that we might just learn something.